Glenn Chapman Special

Pete 0:15
All right, and welcome to another episode hempire along with my buddy that I can actually see face to face. Nick DiFrancesco, CEO of PurWell,

Nick 0:25
hey, hey, doing there. I’m good, I’m good. So we ever have a little special thing going on here because we’ve never gotten this. It’s like a round table type of this is yeah. So we have a roundtable situation going on today with a very good friend of mine that I’ve known for many, many years. Dr. Glen Chapman, and it’s gonna be very educational. It’s going to be you know, it’s going to be a little entertainment. But I think it’s definitely gonna be enlightening. And so welcome.

Glenn 0:54
Thanks for having me. I know that a long time coming.

Nick 0:57
Yes. It’s been a long time coming to get the president. True. This is true. Um, you know, I don’t know how long 15 years, 12 years,

Glenn 1:11
13 years or something like that. Yeah, I was probably coming up on 15 years. Yeah,

Nick 1:15
yeah, it’s been a long time. And, and it’s kind of funny. When I was in medical field, I was working in a company called Primus and I met Dr. Chapman for the first time and we were talking about a product called liberal and, and he was okay and didn’t really, you know, we talked a little bit. And we we met at a we’re really started talking about the China study. We had a conversation about the China study at a medical

Glenn 1:47
center with China Study. Just to briefly won’t go into that long term, but it was this guy, this researcher from Cornell, who was sent who was tasked with determining the benefits of milk, cow’s milk, and in his research, he found out the exact opposite. And he started to understand a bit more about proteins and different types of proteins. It was really really lovely book. I mean, we all kind of on board now about cow’s milk is really not a good milk for humans unless it’s the only food you have on the island

Glenn 2:28
pay Paul here. That’s what it was about. And it was it was really interesting. He did some he found out that kids in the Philippines were getting a liver cancer hepatocellular carcinoma and what they found is that they were eating lots of peanut butter. And they’re like, Huh, well, peanut butter has aflatoxin in which they use in an experimental settings to induce this liver cancer, but when you put it together with enough protein, here’s the key when you put it with high protein, it would induce the enzymes that converted this aflatoxin to make it more dangerous. So it was interesting how they’re saying he was talking about this higher protein diet like that was was setting you up for cancers by turning some of the stuff that you’re able to deal with normally throughout the day and go pro cancer situation. So that was it was a really interesting book it was not specifically about diet but it’s more about protein in that aspect. But it kind of came out as a side effect of him looking to try to promote milk so so yeah, so Nick and I

Pete 3:29
do seem to be a side effect of what they were trying to study or approved and then all of a sudden

Glenn 3:35
breakthrough little things like penicillin that was that worked out pretty cool for us

Pete 3:45
to kind of test it and then they came all the way to check regiments

Nick 3:50
and I was gonna say I mean this is this is why I love you know, seeing Glenn Dr. Chapman, because there’s always new knowledge obviously triple board certified so tell them a little bit so triple board certified in what

Glenn 4:03
what do you Oh, so it’s definitely love this president it’s President United States well, well I’m gonna do an osteopathic physician which will briefly for people don’t know what that is. That’s that’s londos gonna be upset with me but that’s like an MD and a chiropractor put together okay, I’ve done four years of medical school three years of residency is your fellowship multiple boards state licensed I delivered my babies. I write narcotics. I did epidurals, I’ve held heart and surgery so so I’m I’m a physician, but in addition, I did my primary residency neuro musculoskeletal medicine, which is musculoskeletal pain, which think of as non surgical orthopedics. If it hurts and it doesn’t need surgery, I treat it and as an osteopath, we have a unique toolkit in using our hands that we can fix a lot of things with our hands. And in annual I’ll tell you a second why You already know why this made sense to me coming into it, but so no Musca mess is my primary Osuna fellowship in sports medicine, which I love, not just because I love athletics, which we all do, we’re just talking fantasy, right? Because the neat thing about sports is you can’t just throw a pill or throw surgery, the patient, no, there, I fixed your eye, you got to get them back on a field, you got to get them back playing and functioning. And sometimes people sport is cooking or baking. And that’s what we don’t tend to think about. You know, I mean, you know, he’s 76 years old, you played for the Philadelphia Eagles 50 years ago, I actually have one of those guys. This guy’s got some gnarled hands, stepped on the light catcher’s mitt. And, you know, the sport today, he’s not playing, playing lot, you know, defensive line, his sport is now exercising to stay healthy is trimming the yard, doing yard work, it’s helping in the kitchen, those type of things. So maintaining function in the context of pain, which dovetails nicely into what you’re doing here is really the focus of Sports Medicine, which is which really intrigued me. And in addition, my third board certifications and pain medicine, because as I evolved in it, and I got that board certification later on, it made sense, because everyone who came to see me is in pain. So it made sense that we should learn a little bit more about it, learn more interventions, and let’s be honest, you know, we all started, I started with a hope set to fix everything on my hands, that we all just hope, you know, I’m just, you know, mental telepathy, I’m fixing that tumor. You know, I know it’s possible, I can’t do it. Now, so So you know, you have to, you have to evolve yourself into some of these tools that are less desirable. Like, for instance, steroids, people are scared to death, these steroids were opiates, I mean, they have their role in medicine, they have their role, you fracture your pelvis, you’re going to want to know, be it when you’re in the ER, you know, but the problem is, is like a lot of things, we abuse it and neglect. Other steps moving up to that, which is I think, is where a lot where what you do with CBD with cannabinoids really fits nicely into what we do in medicine, in the sense that we’re just so ready to jump into the purple pill, versus starting in some of the more conservative safer measures. And so so that’s, you know, that’s kind of a brief background of where I am as a physician. And that’s, that’s how I practice medicine, my practice, I start conservatively, and use a lot of these types of products we’re talking about, but you know, what, if an acute herniated disc, you get an epidural. You know, if you’re selected correctly, not just everyone that comes to the door is probably going to work fantastic. And which is a big, which is not like what you guys deal with with cannabinoids, trying to wrestle them. The misconception about it, the Reefer Madness is still hanging on from 50s, when we brought that out, or even earlier, it was we still wrestle a lot with trying to educate people because of the mistrust in medicine now, which is legitimate and honest, I mean, let’s face it, we’ve been trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes for long times and hurt people a lot. And in, but unfortunately, then it distracts you from when medicine is very useful and appropriate. And so a lot of what we do is trying to talk people off a cliff and go no, no, you know, this is not going to kill you. I understand what since we’re not jumping at it, but you’ve already gone through these separate levels. You know, it’s your pain, if you want it, it’s yours, feel free to keep it if you want to get rid of it. This gives you an opportunity.

Nick 8:39
I think it was great that you the way you just addressed it, because a lot of people are concerned about medicine right now, for many reasons. And and as well as a Chevy. Yeah. But I think more than ever, at least in my time. No, I agree that I’ve lived. Maybe that was the case 100 years ago, 80 years ago, but I don’t know, but for Read for me. We see it every day when we talk to patients here. Coming in, of course, obviously calling or you know, that feeling the calls that we have that you know, call parallel. And it’s it’s so different because back in the day, it’s like the doctor knew everything. And now everybody thinks that the doctor knows nothing. So there is a there is a middle ground, right? I mean, there was some of the things that you would talk about and you’d say, yeah, just just by diet, these people could be controlling so much more of this inflammation markers and things that they’re dealing with. And which is 100% true, but what happens most people are like, well, there’s got to be a pill for that. Right. You know, I like that

Glenn 9:51
house. Kaldi of

Nick 9:52
it right. Like instead of No, like put down the fried chicken, like you know, like I could. I mean it was funny. He said that one day I mean I go, you know, a lot of doctors would maybe be out of business, if they really preached more about just taking care of your body. Normally, you know, just doing the normal things that you should be doing are what we were preached to, when we were young, get your sleep going, Yeah, being conscious of what’s going in your body, right, get sleep, eat, try to eat naturally, don’t eat McDonald’s, go play in the trees, don’t sit in the, you know, watching TV or all day long, or, you know, whatever it is so, so So we do see a lot of that. And I really love having you on for so many reasons, because of all the knowledge and everything, but you’re really looking at it from both sides. And I didn’t want people to always hear like cannabis focus, cannabis focus, kind of as they’re pushing, they have an agenda, they’re coming from parallel. They’re, you know, bringing people on their accounts, you have a lot of, and I want you to go on and go out into, you know, where you started and stuff and, and kind of how that’s been a part of your life. But it’s, it’s not the only thing. And there is a reason for we use it and why we’re using it, you know, because it’s safe, because it’s natural, because it does have a lot of great benefits. But we’re not saying that you might not need something else, you know, we’re just giving you a lot of the benefits of why would you not start here first? Why would you just drop jump to a pail, or, or this or an OP, you know, because it’s easy, it’s because

Glenn 11:27
there’s a lot of other pressure. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of pressure to do that a lot of it has to come from the training and the old saying, If you don’t see it in residency, you’re not going to practice it when you get out. And if all you ever do is get drug lunches, showing pharmaceuticals do your entire training. I mean, we get we get zero nutrition, the only nutrition we get is probably a little bit in our biochemistry courses, but it’s not human nutrition. It’s nutrition via biochemistry, you know, I mean, and most people know that. And this the duck on on the street, you may get to a good institution make a school where they gave you a nutrition course. But there shouldn’t be a nutrition course, one of the Chinese say food is either your first medicine or your first poison. And I think we’re pretty well understand the fact today that 99% of our diseases we can cure with Nutrition and Dietary. I’m not saying I can cure you with beansprouts. But I’m saying is like you said PB if you put good things in in keep the bad things out the human vehicles amazing and its ability to heal itself and fix itself. That self writing self healing mechanism that we blow off in osteopaths. It’s one of our tenants is that we, we count on that self healing self regulating mechanism in humans. And we tend to blow that off in society. But you cut your arm when you tell those cells where to go to heals itself. I mean, I always tell people all the time, like with a, you have an ammonia, I gave you an antibiotic that I carry, you know, and not the size of the pneumonia, meaning the number of bugs down the colony, I knocked it down enough so that the bony canal when and this is a concept we don’t even talk about in mainstream medicine, when we use pencil, you know, what I mean, is that we still got to enable the body to win, which is like when you were talking to me earlier about some of these Mottaki mushrooms and some of the things some of the ideas you got, I think it’s brilliant, because the only way we heal is if we heal. So besides taking away the things that are knocking down our ability to heal, which sometimes, unfortunately, are pharmaceuticals, not all of them, but promoting the healing aspects within our own body. Myriad different ways. But with some of the things we’ve been given like mushrooms and other plant sources, I think it’s a it’s a very elegant and appropriate way to start, like you mentioned, we should start conservatively with the fundamentals don’t jump towards the big guns.

Nick 13:50
And well, you know, you were talking about a gummy that we’re going to release in about a month, but it’s got five different mushrooms in it. And it also has ashwagandha and as well. So it’s called a sap, Lion’s Mane Chaga Chaga Chaga Turkey Tail and Reishi. So it’s gonna be it’s gonna be Yeah, it’s gonna be a nice mixture of that as well as the ashwagandha. And then we have, of course, the cannabinoids. So we have a full spectrum oil about 35 milligrams, we’re going to have an isolate of CBC, which is a very, very powerful cannabinoid that we are still learning a lot about but and then we have CBG not that we’re not learning. We do know some of its cognitive effects and focus and some other things, but it’s just a very powerful cannabinoid. And then CBG is known for an anti inflammatory so you’ve got a really strong cognitive blend of mushrooms are strong, any any inflammatory effects. Definitely immunity boosting. I mean, that was the first thing that you thought of when you were saying that so neuro protective in total Well, yeah, you’re talking about a wellness product that is that that is going to be good but but no

Glenn 15:02
it’s a big deal right now I gotta tell you the amount of Zeno toxins we have the toxins from outside our body that we’re exposed to. I mean, Alzheimer’s dementia and Parkinson’s and Parkinson, like dementia and Parkinson’s syndrome is is massive it’s epidemic now it is legitimately epidemic and it’s it’s brain inflammation due to outside insults. So anything we can do to start protecting neuro protective products now if we’re going to continue to live in the society which many of us are we need to try to ameliorate try to dial down some of the damage done by just normal normal living

Nick 15:39
and it’s something we never really had but but let’s be honest, I mean, one of the reasons we have purely pure well is because of you you know, we talked about liberal and having that product years ago and then taking those two main ingredients contention and bachlin and then you had a great idea to work with you know, Dr. Bruce, banana and everything, but you specifically just put Boswellia

Glenn 16:07
love it. Oh,

Nick 16:09
and so it’s just been a really good combination for you and I was gonna ask you you know what your thoughts on that but let’s go back, tell people kind of how you started and how you bring in your plant medicine and where your roots were so they can have an idea what kind of get into something

Glenn 16:30
I’ll briefly bring you back my dad was a physician, he was an ER doctor who then opened up one of the first walk in clinics in the state of Florida, urgent care center way back in like 83 and he practice like that he saw 112 patients a day room to room to room a machine. And later on in life he got frustrated with fixing people like you know, as an ER doc obviously saved 1000s 1000s of lives. But you know, as he started to move into more of a primary care type model, he got very frustrated with handing out a PPI for reflux, Gerd gastritis, which fixes zero, and actually can cause gastric gastric cancers can cause osteoporosis because it can cause a lot of problems things fixing up and so he he was at that point in his life and evolving in this and coming into more natural medicine as a traditionally trained and practice 20 year MD at the same time that I was in like 16 and I got exposed to Carlos Castaneda, and Carlos Castaneda and Don Juan Yaquis way of knowledge was an intrapreneur anthropologist in Southern California and who did his doctoral dissertation working with a Sonoran Shaman. Now’s where stuff gets really we’re about as far out as you can imagine, you when he talked about this, you know, using the dream state and using mushrooms and psychedelic plants, but it wasn’t about the drugs, it got to really make this that was a tool which is like we talked about with CBD with cannabinoids, even it’s these are tools, and they were used appropriately. So that really opened up a rabbit hole for me, you know that when I started going down that I started branching out and reading young and all this, but that gives you the first little crack in my cosmic egg that the world was maybe not the way they were presenting it to me and a 60. You know, in so so I evolved on past that and in kept going and started reading more. And in dad did as well. And my freshman year, I went to University of Florida, and I wanted to be a doctor. And for whatever reason you want to be a doctor. And my dad begged me not to get used to tell me. He beat me up with Don’t Don’t, don’t. He’s like for the hassle of your life be adopted.

Nick 18:53
And I’ll tell you, you know, and go ahead and really downplays his father, but his father had his I mean, his ability to make you feel like you were the most important person in world world that you knew him for your whole life. You can adjust met your father, and you just know, you just you just you just knew this man. And he’s the one that said he got to meet my son, because I knew your father before. You know, that’s right. Yeah, I met him. Right. And I was I worked with your father for a long time. And your dad kept on saying, You got to meet my son, you got to be my son. You guys will hit it off. You’ll love it. And

Glenn 19:34
so you came in the office. I was working out with this with this liberal, right? And of course, I’m like, Why haven’t I heard of this? Right, which is a big point. A lot of patients a lot of people don’t realize there’s a lot of medicine, real medicine out in the world. We don’t know about in America, because Americans don’t read foreign language journals and don’t use stuff we

Nick 19:58
don’t even want to read I’ll read a book

Glenn 20:05
and so that you know, what’s the big deal. And I think this this like cannabinoids, so many people haven’t heard of it or thought of it or known that it was something beyond a recreational drug. Right. And you brought that limber line and I’m like, really? How come? I haven’t heard of it? But a new you know, you know, the man who can sell ice to Eskimos. He’s like, No, seriously, it turned out to be one of the best products I’ve seen in medicine was the comeback

Nick 20:28
in the pill outfit, or did you take Oh, I cannot hurt the end of this. Yeah. Because I told them about

Pete 20:36
leotards and Pilsen.

Nick 20:41
This is true. This is this is very true. I was but it was for good cause no. Excitement was when the pill costume had to come off to get like in and out of the car when the one piece leotard was on the

Glenn 20:57
unit harbor shocking.

Nick 21:03
Very, very, very, very. Right, exactly, exactly. So, but I will tell you this, it was kind of funny. And I did. And we love liberal. And it works so well. And that is why I worked so hard to get Pure Leaf. And I wanted to not only take those benefits, those natural benefits of contention and Backlund and pure relief. And then when you were like, look, we really should add Boswellia we should put some contention and curcumin and of course we’re going to do the cannabinoid medicines, that but but it really that combination the results that we’re getting, and I do want to talk to you about the results that you get from your patients, but has really been a game changer, because everybody knew of us just because of pure sleep, and custom formulation, we won awards and all that stuff. And it is it’s a great product, a lot of other parts of pure sleep. But it’s the pure relief that these people are struggling with all the things you talk about every day opiate addiction, or not having a great diet, or taking an inset and giving you those side effects, those GI issues or, and now having something that’s all natural for long term with no side effects that can really help them. And so I just I really thank you for helping us with that. You know, and, and I do want you to talk about that. So so I didn’t mean to cut you off about that. But I just was you

Glenn 22:28
for bringing it because I think it’s really an important product for a lot of reasons. I mean, really, we talked about this for a long time. And you’re like, what’s your dream product, I’m like, here, you know, and the reason is like the the, the bachlin, the Metatron. They they work like an Aleve for people out there to give you an idea, they work on that pathway. But on those enzymes they work such that they turn down the volume, they don’t turn off the stereo, which is a really big deal. Because the the traditional NSAIDs, Aleve and Advil and stuff, turn off the stereo. And so that’s where you start to get the spike in the side effects for the renal acid, they kidney aspect, the heart aspect, the gastritis stomach aspect that we all know so well about it. And what was really neat about these other two products is that they turn the volume down that they get enough effect on inflammation that they work. Obviously they have to, but you didn’t have the GI renal and cardiac side effects. It was it was really an amazing thing when you first turned me on to it, you know, when you brought the product and I was like why don’t we why we never heard of this. And then I kind of went oh, this is why we haven’t heard of it because it really works and it’s safe. But it’s a brilliant idea to put it in. And one of the difficulties with it, and let’s be honest with it is it doesn’t fit the Western American psyche. We want to take two pills and get to work 15 minutes later, lesbian we all have short attention spans and we’re busy. And these products take about two weeks to start to see the effects. And which is not unlike curcumin too. And so it’s sometimes it’s a tough sell for people, you have to try to really, really enable their belief system and talk to them, get them to buy into this and give it time to work. And so that’s been one of the tougher selling points of those products. But you take those two, and you add it to something like curcumin, which is ancient. I mean is all for those you don’t know Curcumin is from Tumeric Curcumin is the medical aspect that comes from the herb to spice tumeric and Tumeric makes curry yellow, you know, billion Hindus eat it daily. You know, I mean, it’s kind of popular. Been around for a little while. And a ton of science. It has a ton of Western science. And I’m very I am very specific about this because we got two different worlds here that don’t necessarily mesh. But we do have a ton of hard Western science on these products in terms of their safety and their app. Because see, and what I love is the elegance like with them with Maplins of how how they treat so many different aspects like curcumin treats, 30 different pathways of inflammation. roundabout, we don’t even know the whole stack. But if you really go through the literature, you can find all these little different pathways. That’s another thing, we tend to get caught up in coxswain, Cox tubes, that’s what the TV commercial tells us, right? A lot of different pathways. Inflammation is a very, very, very complex healing pathway in our body, that and other places can go wrong, if you want to realize that if you cut out inflammation, you will die. That’s how we heal and how we’re repair. So it’s an interesting balance, which goes back once again, it takes it out of our western view back to our eastern view of the ying yang and the balance between the two. So the curcumin has some really, really nice side effects, we use it to protect your liver, like there’s studies showing when you taking chemotherapy, protect the liver, it actually passes the blood brain barrier. But a lot of people don’t realize not everything passes that special hermetic seal around the brain that protects your brain. This is there for a purpose, this actually passes into the brain and works as an anti inflammatory. That’s why we have studies for its use in Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. Big deal, it’s a really a big deal. You know, besides joint pain and things like the an anti microbial, like anti parasitic activity with this, this thing is, this thing’s not a high powered rifle. This thing’s a machine gun. You know, and it’s really a beautiful, beautiful, elegant plan, and it also grows so easily. I’m, I’m a guy that kinda like look at the big picture. If it’s exceedingly hard to find and get, it probably has a very specific limited use. If it grows everywhere, super easy. It’s probably abundant for a reason.

Nick 26:58
Firstly, that is that’s just, that’s probably one of the simple way of doing it. And yet, it’s so smart. That is probably one of the coolest ways for just a person to think about something where, how, how well, does that make sense? I mean, seriously,

Glenn 27:15
do you know what I’m saying?

Nick 27:18
But you don’t think that until you say bring it back to light and you go

Glenn 27:26
hard to argue it was like with cannabis. I mean, this stuff will grow in sand. It’s, it will grow like a weed. Right? Grow it in every environment all over the world. The different strains can go really cold and temperate, they can drunk on equator. I mean, you know, somebody wanted this plant on this planet. Right? So you got to stop and question and go, Why? Why, how is this useful? We should at least, and I think that’s something that we did. And we have and God knows cultures before us for 1000s of years have and we got a little derailed. derailed. Let me let me go back real quick to peer relief entirely because the argument is, is beautiful. It’s a brilliant, but the other one I like because people never heard of it. Or at least they don’t think they’ve heard of it is Boswellia. It comes from the horn of East Africa from a tree from the resonance of a tree. You may have heard of it. And a lesser known story about this dude, he’s kind of Rares names Jesus. Never the Three Wise Man. What did they bring? Gold myrrh, gold, and frankincense. Boswell is frankincense. So I always joke with my patients. I’m like, Look, it’s good enough for baby Jesus. Good enough for you.

Pete 28:46
Religion Yeah, that’s funny.

Nick 28:51
Jokes. I mean, even Dr. Chapman used to come it didn’t matter what holiday it was. He’d have a list of things you probably still do, of course, but I’ll let him if it was St. Patrick’s Day, there was 50 St. Patrick’s Day jokes that he rattled off, and he’s like, you’ll like this one. He’ll like this and they all kill to be honest. They really weren’t. Some people think they’re not funny. Or they think they’re funny they’re not funny. He’s got great delivery but um, but yeah, so you always have a little bit but I digress. For sure.

Glenn 29:32
Is that that mental that frame of mind when you laughter that when you when you’re happy in your mind? That’s a healing state and human body? Yeah, absolutely. As so the Boswellia is one of the other major components in there. And in we get to scientific but you know, people have heard of Cox one and Cox two one of the other major pathways is five lipoxygenase. We call five locks in Cox one and Cox two I believe, don’t touch it. So just as a little free tidbit event For out there, if you’re one of those, like I have terrible arthritis in my knees, my doc says take a leave. It doesn’t work. I don’t think he knows what he’s talking about. He’s got the wrong diagnosis, I must have waka Bongo disease. You know, no, you are probably a predominantly five locs inflammatory pathway. So you might try Boswell lead and I’m able to work fantastic. And that’s one of the things I’ve seen clinically is that when I see those people like I have I’m leaving at work and I’m especially on my career, I’m looking at their exercise I’m not, you have terrible arthritis, it’s clear with osteoarthritis, because you know, you guys know there’s a lot of different types, of course, psoriatic rheumatoid arthritis is crystal, you know, anyway, um, you know, I’m gonna kind of why isn’t this stuff working? They told me in school it did. It did there. There are different inflammatory pathway, which is, which is an interesting concept, but is that we start to realize that there’s a lot of diversity in the human in human genetics, and how we live and interact with the drugs and things we use, which is one of the reasons why when you first came to me when you were working with CBD, and you’re like, I got this product, and you’re like, it’s a broad spectrum. And I’m like, it’s not an isolate. It’s not a single molecule, you’re pulling out of an Erlenmeyer flask in a room with a mask on a shield, right? You’re like,

Nick 31:17
I definitely don’t believe in that. I hate that. I like that full. That full spectrum approach.

Glenn 31:22
And this is why I think it’s really important is because, you know, Mother Nature’s work this stuff out for us, in our biggest mistake, because we get in its way we pull nature out the way it was packaged for us and start to use it in the full spectrum since it’s much more effective. And I think that’s panned out, too. I’ve seen that when in using your products. But you know, and I know I’ve told you this, but I don’t know if I ever told you this be when they first came on the market. I got eight years ago now is it 10 years. It’s been a while now. I had two patients who were my two primary guinea pigs, okay, and they wanted to do it and they were they were interested. And I’m like, Alright, let’s do it. Here. Try this. They’re like, well, I got this from my aunt Sheila. Alright, let’s try that it looks good. You know, we went through about 20 products. And I see CBD product. Right? CBD. Okay. And at this point, in both we you know, isolates full spectrum, higher dose this man we were we tried all different stuff. I swear to God about 17 Out of those 20 words, snake oil, there was nothing in them because they, we got no effect the patient’s like, I feel zero. And then I found we hit hit on to that worked. And it’s pretty simple. People go, how do I know if it’s working? You don’t need to know it’s working. You’re telling me? You don’t have to question it either works in fixes symptoms that are bothering you, or it doesn’t. There’s no such thing as like, oh, what’s working? I have no idea.

Nick 32:50
Well, the problem here is is is that and you don’t see this as much being a physician that we deal with more on our cannabis is is that, like, you write a product, prescription, whatever, that’s something that is supposed to work. It does what it says it’s supposed to do. But the ingredients are what they are supposed to be. That’s not necessarily the case in our field, and in this industry, when I noticed and that’s what I found what moving over from true medical to coming over to my say dramatical when dealing with not just going against traditional pharmaceuticals and natural products, but whether they were good for you or not, at least what was said was in the bottle was in the bottle. Guy guess what I’m trying to say? Whereas that is not the case with what we battle. So all CBD is not equal. All marijuana is not equal all cannabinoid extraction methods like you just talked about are not equal. You know, when you’re talking about an isolate, and you are using hexane or pentane, or isolating something out to make one cannabinoid prominent, and taking everything else out. That’s rare. Does that sound right? I mean, that’s, that doesn’t sound right, right. I mean, what I take, you know, a banana and take only the peel out or I don’t know, I mean, I’m just saying I don’t know what that is. I do I do. But here I am just saying would you take something from Mother Nature and break it up? Just because you were looking for one specific thing in there and use a chemical, a nasty chemical to get that I guess it’s rarely

Glenn 34:35
ever work in nature. Yeah, you build a house with just nails. Right? Right. Boards? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you need the full spectrum.

Nick 34:45
Effects, right. So it’s also how you do extraction. So you have like a co2 extraction verse, which we do is called ethanol. All we’re doing is we’re taking the plants we’re shutting them down, and we’re putting it into cold at Tonight, we’re at just the taco.

Glenn 35:01
We’re drinking alcohol do this.

Nick 35:05
Right drinking alcohol. Exactly. And all it’s doing is is pulling every great, beautiful thing out of that plant. Naturally, I’m not separating anything, I’m not using any Newcrest mountain, crazy chemicals. It’s kind of like I always say, like grandma used to have like that jar. And it’s usually of hot peppers or something, and they pull it out like, and then they use that as a tincture. They use it in as medicine as medicine, it’s the same thing. So that just starting off, Dr. Timing is very different. Because what’s in our product is in our product, it’s what we say it is, obviously we’re USDA certified, organic or kosher, we’re vegan, we’re non GMO, we’re all those great things. But let’s just bring it back to how we actually get there. And it’s so me giving you a product like that to give to a patient when you’re talking about all these different receptors in a person’s body. Different rheumatoid arthritis, you know, I’ll share arthritis, you know, but what did you say there’s many different ways that our body responds to an A, a fracture to inflammation, or what is going to be an anti inflammatory for them. So you’re using 160 170 cannabinoids in a full spectrum, which, that’s where we have a huge leg up in marijuana. Marijuana, you know, we love the cannabis companies that come on, and we love and there’s all these terpene profiles, and they get different feelings. But a lot of them is very different than where we derive that we are much more medical based, we have a lot more of a cannabinoid profile in our products. And in the plant itself, that helps with a myriad of medical conditions where marijuana is now really are, that’s not their focus. And so that is something we need to bring to people as well. And they understand. And that’s why I want to get back to how you thought. Or when you started to realize about cannabinoids, and how they work. And it could have been just as basic as marijuana or CBD or hemp or whatever. But how you started to see the medical benefits is kind of what you said before, if it’s growing everywhere. It must be goes for useful for something. Yeah. So why would you try to break that down? So what happens is, is just to let me get back there putting out a cheap product. So yes, you’re going through all these different ones in the beginning. And you’re saying Well, I tried this CBD and I tried that product and and nothing’s working. Right, or maybe it’s not as receiving, we didn’t

Glenn 37:42
know that they’re factual about 10 years ago, they put that study out where they looked at all these graphs certified generally recognized as say, supplements, they found the majority didn’t even have the 12 in and when it said v 12. On the label,

Nick 37:57
which is crazy. That’s That’s insane. So

Glenn 37:59
so the it makes it difficult on the consumer because they tried the first 16 like I did, and I’m like this is all garbage. It’s all crap. They don’t realize that now there’s just good products out there just tough to get to.

Nick 38:09
We find that a lot. We find out a lot in

Pete 38:15
China. And us Miami. No, you just have to have the right to have the right dosage. You need to have good price. Maybe it wasn’t working. But you didn’t notice that it just wasn’t enough that you

Glenn 38:31
bring up a good point is that I see this a lot too in my practice is it dosing is an issue, because there’s preconceptions they hear the word like 1000 milligrams, that’s huge. Like maybe it’s 1000 Ladybugs not huge 1000 elephants that you there’s there’s a relatively cost associated with it. So a lot of people come in and they go well, let me just see if it works. First, give me the cheapest bottle, you know, and unfortunately, there is a dose dependent aspect to it. Some people require a much higher dose, and some don’t get there because they they feel fails. And I usually try very hard on the front end to go we’re going to start conservatively because we should and financially, conservatively two, I said but there is a dose relationship to this. And before you say it doesn’t work, you should try the higher dose. And I usually do that with people like you know, it’s just not working like you know, you already bought the bottle, you’re halfway to it fine. Double your dose by triple your dose, just try it and see. And it’s amazing. Then when you start to see an effect, they go Oh, and now you gotta go back and kind of fine tune bring them back. So you’re practicing cost effective medicine, you’re still getting effective medicine.

Nick 39:44
Well, we were saying even with the all the different to curcumin and Boswellia, stuff like that, when you’re talking about how it takes several weeks to kick in. So now you want someone who wants that Golden Pill. They want it immediately. And now they have to wait that two or three weeks But let’s say they do wait that two or three weeks and they start getting those reliefs. That’s when the light bulb comes off. And I think the way you said it the best is how you quantify pain. It’s hard old school was, it could be wrong, but it’s, you know, give me a pain tolerance from one to 10. But I thought the way that you explained it was really, you know, I remember hearing it one day, and he said, Well, what is it like for you to get up in the morning? Get in and out of your car? Stand while you’re making coffee or breakfast? Or lunch or dinner? You know, what are the things that your perception of pain is different than just a pain scan? Do you know? Like, is it different? When you wake up in the morning? Do you feel less? You know, do you have less pain? You know, the

Glenn 40:48
more information I mentioned early on about sports medicine, it’s about function. Right? Not Oh, look, I gave me the right molecule for the right receptor. And you noticed something great. That’s the like, you know, the pain, the surgery was success, the patient died. Right? You know, right. It’s about function. So I think that’s much better way to look at pain, because you just love people still gonna happen. Let’s face it, even our age, you get out of bed in the morning, you feed her stuff hurts life is not exactly comfortable. You know, but if you’re functioning, and I think that’s an important thing that you’re talking about, especially when setting expectations, setting expectations a big deal, especially if someone’s coming to this for the first time. You know, it’s like, do you start to do your function? Easier? Better? Are you thinking less about your pain? Your pain stole five? Okay, okay, but are you thinking less about your pain while you’re cooking? And I think that’s a big deal. We got to start start giving that the credit that its do is that people can go on with their lives, and not have it be the central focus of their lives with something like this totally. Because some people you know, I’m sorry, you played for the Philadelphia Eagles. And you’re seven eight years old, you’re gonna have some pain. That’s just no way right?

Nick 42:05
I mean, some of these guys it’s insane

Pete 42:12
I was like, I don’t want to call you a liar. Thank

Pete 42:19
you just maybe just smacking around. However, you just think like you said, just by being Yeah, politics every

Glenn 42:27
day, you know, world still spinning and you’re gonna have some kind of pain, or what he said that went by really quick was really profound. His perception of pain. Pain is not a thing. We can’t measure it. Like we can’t say, Well, you have this Minion Catalans banana gram, and this is paint. No, it’s his perception of pain. So he’s probably just like, he’s paying for breakfast.

Nick 42:48
While he works out and and even when his last his last wrestling match. I mean, he was I mean, he’s put up serious weight he’s doing I mean, he’s working out like everybody, even the gym are like really. So but you’re right in its perception of pain. And the other thing is, is that we were talking about, you know, some of these players, we get a lot of athletes on we get a ton athletes on. And they’re like, We wish we had cannabis while we were playing in some way because of not wanting to be on opiates not wanting to do NSAIDs, but how the inflammatory effects really help with the aches and pains. And they’re, they’re young and plan. So forget being 75 years old, and your body being banged up. I’m talking about current players that are like, we wish we had cannabis during that time, because it would have changed my training regimen, it would have changed some of the side effects that I got from traditional medications. It would have done a lot of things for me, if I just would have had this available to me now may have been available to them even. But they get tested. So they can’t have it.

Pete 43:56
politics. Politics. Yeah. So

Nick 43:59
some of them. Yeah. Sometimes they didn’t know about it. But

Glenn 44:05
but it wasn’t mainstream enough for them to use or politically wise, they weren’t able to use it. So, you know, it’s such a neat little tidbit of how why that can be such a big deal to them at that age, you know, adenoma leaf, right, the very strong anti inflammatories. So So let’s back up when I do this. When I do a bicep curl like this right now I’m tearing muscle fiber and I’m repairing, right I tear and I repair at the same level. Okay, well, the way we repair is inflammation. That’s why I said it’s actually a good guy, not a bad guy like we talked about it. So but if I tear my normal tearing through normal daily attrition muscles in then I knock down my inflammation with an NSAID or with steroids. I started to tear more than I repair and you start to break down tendons studies have shown this over and over again. And you start to get injuries and connective tissue like tendons and ligaments. It starts Healing property, because I’m tearing up my normal array, but I’m not repairing and my normal hearing is inflammation, right. And I’m using an anti inflammatory to knock down the inflammation. So my tearing starts to overwhelm my repair. And you start to get tendons breaking in a lower load. And so a lot of these guys, a lot of people now friends we have they take too long go to the gym, because they feel better after they feel good and it doesn’t hurt as much yada yada yada. And it’s actually making it twice as bad. They’re setting themselves up for injury and not even talking about the cardiac, the renal, the stomach of just connective tissue, second, strains, sprains and injuries. Whereas a lot of these guys playing at that level had they had canal adenoids, to help with inflammation help with the pain. And the lesser known promotion of repair which is an interesting side effect of cannabinoids is they really they probably might have even been able to prolong their careers because I mean, we pump these guys like with a toradol which is a super Advil. It is like it knocks down all inflammation. And

Nick 46:04
always that was the first thing that that Chase by Yeah, no, no, no who know who was our first coach? Kyle Turley that’s what he said. That’s all they used to shoot him up with. Kai he

Glenn 46:24
and you’re not supposed to use that more than five days in a row. It’ll burn a hole in your stomach like a cannonball. But I mean, this stuff. You’re not allowed to get pills more than five days. And even even though it works great that we use in the ER someone comes in once opioids give a shot at toradol and they feel better

Nick 46:40
instead of an opiate instead of an open so it works really well with no addiction. When I’m saying that one time

Glenn 46:48
the insights on how it’s absolutely but they shoot these guys up for practice after practice after game after game a whole season of using this stuff

Pete 46:58
bandolier these things?

Glenn 47:00
Yeah, so it’s not surprising that you got a 27 year old guy now that can’t walk because got arthritis is crippled. So whereas you might if they’d had cannabinoids early on, you know, they could, it could have been a game changer for them.

Nick 47:13
Let’s take a break. We’re gonna do two sections. We’re gonna illustrate and that’s why we can’t just put it in 30 minutes.